From the India Today archives (1985) | People's expectations are scary: Rajiv Gandhi

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display: none; width: 10px; height: 10px; } .itg-subs-condition-action-checkbox.is_checked { background: #000; border-color: #000; } .itg-subs-condition-action-checkbox.is_checked svg { display: block; } .itg-subs-condition-action-text { font-size: 14px; line-height: 17px; color: #000; user-select: none; } @media (max-width: 767px) { .it_mg_bnrBox{ padding:10px} .ite_cont_dtl h4 { margin: 0; } .ite_sub_btn{grid-row:auto;} .ite_consent_wrap{ grid-column:1/-1} .ite_consent_wrap{ align-items: flex-start;} .ite_custom_checkbox{ margin-top:3px} .itg-subs-condition-action-label{ grid-column:1/-1} } From the India Today archives (1985) | People's expectations are scary: Rajiv Gandhi August 20 is late PM Rajiv Gandhi's birth anniversary. His first interview to an Indian publication after the emphatic 1984 general election victoryAdvertisement.pagenode__2684512 #comment_box{display:none}.section__education .description.paywall .elec_stripe_iFrame {display: none;}.dark-mode .livetv__sticky svg path{stroke: #fff;} .dark-mode .livetv__sticky svg text{fill:#fff}.tbl-read-more-box {z-index:991 !important}.airtel_5g{width:0px !important;height:0px !important;}table .shopping__widget {display:none}table .inline_ad2 {display: none;}.trinity__container{display: none;} .autiostory a{display: none !important}.description table{max-width:100%;border: 0;margin-bottom: var(--widgetgap);} table tr td #teads-ad{display:none}table tr td .ads__container{display:none}ul>li div#shoppingWidgetLSH{display:none}ul>li div#shoppingWidget_mobile{display:none}.Story_story__content__body__qCd5E .Story_description__fq_4S>ul>li:has(.inline-story-add) div { display: none; }.pagetype__story ul li #checktheseout2{display: none}.newspress_rhs_widget .mframe { background: url(https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/sites/misc/img/iphone-frame.png); }.ads_container .top_ad>* * { text-align: center; margin: 0 auto; }.ite_mg_banner:nth-of-type(2) { display: none; } .pagenode__2672529 .inline_ad2{display:none}India Today BureauUPDATED: Aug 19, 2026 17:54 IST .ai_assist_bar2 { top:30px } (NOTE: This article was originally published in the India Today issue dated February 15, 1985) He has a firm handshake, and looks you straight in the eye. Power seems to rest lightly on him as he sits in his South Block office, clad in a smartly cut kurta-pyjama and a mildly incongruous green quilted sleeveless jacket. Despite being heavily pressed for time (the Sri Lankan Ambassador was waiting outside, to be followed in short order by seven others before a dinner engagement four hours later), Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi answered questions in an unruffled, measured monotone. He smiled easily, but the affability did not extend to parting with too much hard information, and a number of questions were parried without giving offence. There were no grand visions, no spelling out of a Nehruvian world view. Instead, there was a matter-of-fact approach to problems. If he had not decided what precise policy options he would choose in a number of areas, he seemed to have abundant confidence in his own ability to choose the right one once the options were placed before him. And if something had to get done, why, sure it would get done. No question. And yet, despite all the evidence of a young prime minister in a hurry, he was relaxed, the basic underlying personality trait of caution surfacing every once in a while. He has learnt some things quickly. That a prime minister should speak carefully, for instance. Talking of rationalising taxes, he spoke about not needing chartered accountants to file returns, then quickly added "It may seem I am against chartered accountants, but I am not." Yet he would not be deterred from speaking his mind on sensitive issues despite the presence of a cautioning advisor.He promised hard decisions in a number of areas, said the Government would pull out of some activities in which it is currently engaged, indicated that action would be taken against managements that made companies sick, promised a more aggressive family planning programme, and held out hope of a quick solution to the Assam problem. On Punjab, however, the mood was not so easily hopeful. He also spoke out against subsidies, and declared that a "point of no return" would be reached if Pakistan made an atomic bomb. The message was clear: if Pakistan made the bomb, India would too. The interview, the first to an Indian publication after his electoral victory, was conducted by Editor Aroon Purie and Senior Editor T.N. Ninan. Excerpts: Q. You have interpreted the massive mandate that you have got as a mandate for change. Do you find it ironical that a ruling party has been returned with a massive mandate for change? Why wasn’t a lot of what you are doing now not done before? A. The mandate is not just for change. I think it’s both a continuity of certain ideals, certain ideologies, of certain policies, but a change in implementation. We have been making changes continuously. You cannot expect everything to be perfect the minute it is made. Things change, they are dynamic as you progress, the requirements change, demands change. So you change with that. Q. Recently there has been a tremendous flurry of activity with change in personnel, restructuring of departments, new policies. This in a sense is the easy bit, now you have to get down to specifics. What is the next phase? Q. You have laid a lot of emphasis on accountability of government servants. One of the key things necessary for accountability is that you should be able to sack people. Would you be able to do that? A. No, I do not think we want to sack government servants. I don’t think it is going to be necessary to sack them. A. There are infinite methods of punishment not as severe as sacking, but if you introduce sacking I think you will leave it wide open to abuse by somebody who would want to abuse it. Q. When you talk about streamlining do you envisage the fact that you may be cutting off certain roles that the Government is playing, like it shouldn’t be in certain activities? A. I agree it shouldn’t be in certain areas. Q. Then what areas do you have in mind? A. I cannot tell you all that, but yes, we will have to make some hard decisions. We have been taking the soft line for a little too long, not so much the Centre as the states have been taking the soft line. This includes our states also. I am not differentiating between the Opposition and the Congress. We have been subsidising too many things. Q. When you talk of soft options, there is the recent case of casual workers in the Eastern Railway, first being dismissed and then being reinstated. Isn’t that taking the soft line? A. The decision was taken when the ministers were changing over. So it was a political decision to sack them and it was wrong. They should have consulted the minister in charge. As soon as the minister took over they consulted him. Q. So the people were actually needed? A. So he says. Yes. They were ticket collectors and their induction has increased the revenue of the railways. Q. Did you have to intervene in this case? A. No. The complaint came to me. I said don’t come to me, go to the railway minister. Q. Do you see the need for such ticket collectors in all the railways in all the states? A. I am not the railway minister. You’ll have to ask Mr Bansi Lal. Q. Do you intend to change the labour laws in order to promote the efficiency which you are so keen about? A. Hard decisions will have to be taken everywhere in every section and I can tell you that if today we do not take hard decisions then it is going to be a long time before anybody is going to get the chance. Q. What kind of hard decisions are you talking about ? A. Difficult to specify. I’ll get into trouble if you print them. Q. You speak of decentralising decision-making in the government departments, but the Prime Minister’s Secretariat continues to play a pivotal role in the decision process. Do you see it becoming less so when you decentralise? A. The secretariat will play a pivotal role in decision-making above a certain level, where basic policies are involved, but below that we will have to leave the implementation to whoever is in charge. We just follow up the implementation, which does not mean that we go to see whether people are sitting in their offices at 9 o’ clock. Q. But the general feeling is that the Prime Minister’s Secretariat plays a far bigger role than that. A. I don’t think so. They have come to me with certain things and I have thrown it back to them, the various ministries. Q. You want them to make their own decisions? Q. What do you mean by certain level? A. Well, policy decisions. Money decisions will of course have to be done sitting together, certain decisions are made at the Cabinet Committee of Political Affairs level and some which have to go to a full Cabinet. Q. What time frame do you have for working out a solution for Punjab? A. It is very difficult to put a time frame on Punjab. Let us understand where we are. We have the Akalis as one group, we have the Government as another group. We have a large amount of Sikhs, and Hindus and Muslims and Christians and other religions in Punjab who are neither Akali nor Congress and when the Akalis say that this is a Sikh problem, we must understand that they are talking about a group within Punjab which is not representative of Punjab. The Akalis are not even representative of the Sikhs. They represent some Sikhs in Punjab. So when we look at this problem it has to be much wider than that. What we need is that some Sikhs either from the Akali Dal or from outside or from any group must come up and positively speak up against the extremists and terrorists. We are going to sort this problem anyway, but this would help a lot. Q. Can you solve the problem without the Akalis? Q. Do you see any change in the Akali attitude since you last spoke to them? A. Well, I have not spoken to them. I do not know about the senior leaders, but the next level of leadership which is speaking up now has certain parts which are positive, but one or two people are still tied up in knots. Q. Besides the political demands, there still seems to be a certain sense of insecurity amongst the Sikhs. A. We have done a lot. The major insecurity was in Delhi after the beginning of November. Most of the people who left have started coming back. People from Alwar have started coming back, some people from Punjab have started coming back. We have taken steps for their protection and rehabilitation in Delhi. Q. What about the judicial inquiry? A. We don’t think it will help at the moment. It would raise issues which are really dead. Q. How do you react to Bhajan Lal’s proposal to merge Punjab, Haryana, and Himachal Pradesh? A. It is a huge question and I do not think we have discussed it enough to just react to it. No. I don’t object to it. It is something we could look into provided it does satisfy the people in Punjab. They are part of the solution, we cannot push something like this on them. Q. Do you see the state going to elections in March? A. I think it would be difficult. We have not got a critical report from Punjab. Well, the army is back in the barracks and there is not much more army in Punjab now than there normally is, being a border state and front area. Q. Do you think the Anandpur Sahib Resolution is secessionist? Q. But hasn’t it been watered down in 1978? A. They have not clarified what they have watered down and we have suggested that they take it to the Sarkaria Commission within the terms of reference of the commission, and let Justice Sarkaria look at it, but the Akalis are not keen on doing it for some reason. They want the Government to take it, they don’t want to take it, and we don’t want to be party to take such a resolution as the Anandpur Sahib to the Sarkaria Commission. Let them take it and let it be evaluated on its merits. Q. What about elections in Assam? A. Assam elections are different to Punjab, because in Punjab it is a law and order problem and in Assam it is enumeration. It is not that we cannot hold elections in Assam tomorrow, but we do not have the electoral rolls. As soon as this is done, we could have elections. Q. What are the prospects of settling the other outstanding issues in Assam? A. I think the boys are in a much better mood for settlement. Some people that I have met and some feedback that we have got about their own meetings is that they also feel we understand their problems and that we are trying to do whatever can be done, and they understand our constraints. Q. Why do you think the Congress fared so badly in Andhra Pradesh in the recent general elections? A. Maybe the Government being toppled , yes, and other such things. The main thing is that we were not in touch with the people, and also bad organisation. Q. Do you think regionalism weakens national unity? Or is it something which has to be accommodated? A. It depends on the regionalism. In Tamil Nadu, for example, we have regional parties, but they have always been pro-India. Let us say they have not tried to pull apart. What is more dangerous about regional parties is that they do not really have a national perspective, they see things in a very short-term perspective, which really brings you back to soft options - subsidise this, subsidise that, because it gives them popularity. But somebody has to pay for it. It’s not free. Something that is being subsidised in Andhra, subsidised in Bengal, is being paid for. Q. Do you think NTR is anti-Indian? A. No, I don’t think that NTR is anti-Indian. Q. If you were in the state of the Opposition, what would you do ? A. I think I would have a good think about what I’ve done and why I have been cut to shreds by the people. Q. But does the lack of an Opposition worry you? A. No. Not at all, because I know I won’t lose my head. Q. Now regarding the economy you have spoken extensively about streamlining the public sector, but the growth of the public sector has been mainly due to the taking over of sick units. Will you stop this? A. I think we really have to have a hard look at the policy. We might change it. We have to also be tougher on the managements that make these units go sick. A. We’ll find a way. Everybody says that what I have suggested is much too tough. That is the problem. Q. Do you think the taxes in this country are too high? A. Although the taxes look high, if you start taking all the deductions then they can actually come down to very low taxes. Q. Are you saying that by getting rid of some of the deductions and concessions, you can then reduce taxes? A. We would like to clean it up. Don’t have too many boxes, make the whole thing simpler so that people can do it themselves, instead of having to get chartered accountants. I don’t think we can make it as simple as I’ve earned so much, the deductions are so much, and here is my cheque. But we should move in that direction. Q. Taxes like gift tax and estate duties yield little revenue but create opportunities for corruption. Have you thought of abolishing them? A. They need to be rationalised. Q. You keep talking about taking India into the 21st century. What do you mean? What century do you think we are in now, economically? A. It is a mixed picture. It is our way of thinking which we have to change. We are still very backward in that way. We are really pushing everything on a day-to-day basis. We are short of something we need, another 5 per cent. Okay, we give another 5 per cent, but we never think of what we need in 10 years or 15 years from now, not only in quantity, but also in quality. And unless we start switching over now we will not be able to make it in the next 15 years. For example, roads. Are we going to keep making these little pot-holed roads ? Okay, we cannot afford to make motorways, but if we have to have these pot-holed roads, 15 years from now we will be in a total mess. I said roads because they are something we keep bumping on. Maybe we should cut back and have fewer roads but better roads where they are needed. Q. Basically you are talking about a change in approach. A. There should be a change in approach in education. Not just churning out what I feel are literate but uneducated people. Q. What do you hope to achieve by delinking degrees and jobs? A. De-linking degrees is only reducing a demand for the B.A. degree, because the Government says you should have a degree. Q. But then with lower qualification requirements, you would probably have more people applying for the same job. A. Yes, but you need to weed them out from there. You can have a proper test, which can be fairly independent, objective and fast and you need not have numerous B.A.s who are jobless. Q. But if you don’t have enough jobs anyway, then what do you do? A. That is where the education system comes in because you have to reorient it so that the jobs are different. We cannot in today’s world possibly employ the number of people who we have unemployed, in industries. They have to come into information handling, they have to come into services, so the education must be such that there is a demand for that. There should be a shift in approach. Q. All the Government’s plans for development can be negated if family planning is not given proper attention. Does your government plan to be more aggressive about this than in the past? Do you still consider it a sensitive issue? A. Yes, it is very sensitive, but we must make headway on it. We are not going to be hesitant about it, if we did, it is going to sink us. But yes, voluntarily, absolutely. Have more incentives than disincentives. It really comes back to education. It is the educated families who are having less children. Q. You have said that if Pakistan made the atomic bomb, it will change things completely. How will it change things? A. It will be a point of no return on the subcontinent if someone has nuclear weapons. We will have to review our policy to see how we are going to counter that imbalance. Q. What are you going to do about the Tamil militants from Sri Lanka who are in Tamil Nadu? A. We do not have any hard information on this. They’ve presented me some pamphlets and leaflets that the Tamils - the refugees - are printing. There is nothing we can do about that. Anybody is allowed to print whatever. We’ve checked it out, yes, people are printing them but there is no training to my knowledge. What we want in Sri Lanka is a settlement which will enable the refugees to go back. We cannot have 40,000 people here, maybe there are even more now. We cannot have people who have relatives closely related in Sri Lanka. What is going on there is really terrible. We feel that no military or enforced settlement would be conducive to the refugees going back so they must come to some sort of political settlement. We must create an atmosphere where these poor chaps can go back. Q. But it seems more and more difficult - this political settlement. What is your attitude towards a new state? A. I don’t think we have come to that point yet. But it needs statesmanship and I hope that the people of Sri Lanka will rise to it. Q. You started out into politics very hesitantly, but now that you are at the pinnacle, what are your personal goals? A. I didn’t have any personal goals when I came, but after being in politics, after seeing people, their difficulties, their wants. I think our goal has to be to eliminate poverty from India. I don’t say that in five years we can do it, but in 10 to 15 years, we can make a major dent in things. Q. Before you came into politics, you had a quiet life, in that you did not make any public statements about any public policies. There is an element of surprise about the range of initiatives you have taken. Were you thinking about all these matters earlier? A. Yes, one thought of them, but I never thought that I should do this and why haven’t you been doing it, but yes, it has always been at the back of my mind. Q. Are you pleased that you are in a position to do something about it? A. Yes. I am pleased that I am in a position to do something about it, and with support, I think we will be able to do something about it, but what is scary is the expectations people have. Subscribe to India Today Magazine Also WatchPakistan's Iran-US peace bid fails; Dhaka sets terms for Tarique Rahman's India visitVideo: Annamalai opens up on quitting BJP at India Today Tamil Nadu RoundtableEvery citizen has a stake in the nation: Aadhav Arjuna echoes Singapore PMAdvertisement.ad_300_100 .adtext{display:none;}Read ThisFrom the India Today archives (1985) | People’s expectations are scary: Rajiv GandhiPrivate Chinese rocket collapses after landing as one of its legs catches fireAmazon fined Rs 1 lakh for selling ordinary sweets as Ayodhya Ram temple prasadAdvertisement window.addEventListener("message", function (event) { if (event.data?.type === "sharelink" && event.data.shareurl) { console.log("Received sharing links and details", event.data.shareurl); window.open(event.data.shareurl, "_blank"); } }); if (itViewPort === 'mobile') { window.googletag = window.googletag || { cmd: [] }; /* ----------------------------- PAGE LOAD AD (ONLY ONCE) ------------------------------ */ googletag.cmd.push(function () { googletag.defineSlot( '/1007232/IT_ROS_Mobile_MTF_1_300x250', [300, 250], 'div-gpt-ad-1' ).addService(googletag.pubads()); 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