Full Q&A with Bucks GM Jon Horst on Giannis, 'masterful' Doc Rivers and team's unclear future

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In the lead-up to a pivotal offseason, the Bucks put together a disappointing season amid a slew of injuries and consistently poor play. Rumors about the future of Giannis Antetokounmpo persisted throughout the season, all while the Bucks star missed more games due to injury than he has in any other season in his career. The intrigue about Antetokounmpo’s future will reach a fever pitch again this summer, but that will be far from the only question in Milwaukee. As recently as Tuesday night, head coach Doc Rivers has hinted at the possibility of no longer serving as an NBA head coach after two and a half seasons with the Bucks. The Bucks will have a lottery pick for the first time in 10 years and once the team gets to draft night, they’ll have three tradeable first-round picks. To give some insight into what happened in this disappointing season and help give a better idea of what to expect moving forward, general manager Jon Horst sat down with The Athletic and the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel in the team’s hotel in New York Tuesday afternoon before the Bucks lost to the Brooklyn Nets. (This interview was lightly edited for clarity.) Giannis has mentioned that you need couples therapy or counseling. I’d be curious what you think of that. Whether you feel like you’ve done things right or wrong professionally, how do you feel about him believing this is a strained relationship? How does that affect you? I have never and will never speak for Giannis. Never tried to. Never wanted to. Only supported him. Only cared for him. And I will continue to do that because it’s real. I think this is the first time in 10 years we’re going to miss the playoffs. It’s not the first time in 10 years that we didn’t win a championship. But it’s the first time in 10 years that I think, realistically, by the time we got to the end of the regular season, we haven’t felt like we had a chance, right? We may have had points in the beginning of seasons, middle of the seasons, in a playoff series where we just found out we’re not as good as we thought we were. For whatever reason, injuries, mix, whatever. But at the end of almost every year or every regular season we’ve had so far, we’re in a spot, we’re in a really good spot to do something. If we’re healthy, we’re going to have a chance. Best player in the world, all those things. And so, that’s tough. During all those successes and all the things that we’ve been able to ride through together as an organization, as a star player, as a general manager, as a supporting cast, coaches, there’s a lot of positive, right? Sometimes, there’s more bullsh– going on than you know and in these cases, sometimes there’s less. But when you’re winning, it’s really positive. A lot of positive stories. A lot of positive feelings. And it’s a lot easier to stay positive and stay supportive and do the right thing. And then when it’s really hard because you’re losing, you’re struggling, no one’s happy this season. Doc’s been an unbelievable partner for me going through a really tough season. We haven’t won a playoff series in three years or four years, whatever. Well, like Doc’s been part of that and we’ve had injuries every year. Giannis has been part of that. I’ve been part of that. The teams that we’ve built, the injuries that we’ve had, the decisions we’ve made, we’ve all been part of that and we’re all part of this right now. But that doesn’t, for me, I don’t classify that as a strained relationship. I don’t have any less love or respect or belief or gratitude toward Giannis or anyone that works with him. I really don’t. I am going through a tough situation. We are going through a tough situation together and I’m only trying to find the right outcome. And I’m trying to do that together with them. And I’m trying to do what’s best for us and best for them, even if it’s uncomfortable. But I don’t have any ill will. I don’t feel a strained relationship. I feel the results of a strange situation of a season that’s not where any of us wanted it to be. He had hopes of having a great season. He had belief. He’s done everything can. That’s absolutely true. I have too. So has Doc Rivers. So has Kyle Kuzma. We didn’t get there. For the first time in 10 years, we didn’t get there where going into the playoffs we were like, man, we got a chance and that sucks. I’m pretty excited about figuring it out going forward, but like right now, it sucks. Do you think clarity is needed? Like what’s the direction? Going forward, are you operating as a team that plans to have Giannis or you’re trading him? It feels like there is a greater need for that this year. The lack of clarity, the lack of understanding my role, lack of fit — is that because it exists and there isn’t any clarity, there’s no conversation, there’s no directness? Or is it because we’re not winning? And so, there must be a reason. There must be an excuse. And the truth is, it’s all a reason. It all plays into it. There’s no singular hero or knight riding in on the horse that saves the day and there’s no singular villain. It’s all of us in it together trying to figure it out. So I don’t look at it as lack of clarity. At all. I just think I look at it more as a symptom or where we’re at. Going forward, I don’t know what we’re gonna do and I don’t have to. Like we don’t have to. What Wes [Edens] said is — you can take it however you want to take it — but what he said, in most cases, is accurate, right? In most cases, you either — whether you have an actual commitment and you offer an actual extension, it’s way more about sentimentality and alignment and togetherness and path. You either have an alignment and an understanding and not commitment necessarily, but a path forward together that you understand and you go execute it. You could call that an extension or you try to figure out the best win-win that you possibly can moving forward via a trade. It’s not actually the only two doors, right? There’s door number 3 that actually exists, but that’s just a level set, non-emotional reality of where it’s at on October 1st. And I’m not saying that you do something beforehand. I’m just saying you do have to understand where you want to go, but we don’t have to know that today. Yeah, we have three tradable firsts, right? We have tradeable contracts. We have one of the best players in the world — the best player in the world, in my opinion — under contract. We have a high draft pick this year that hopefully it’s a great opportunity to have a great pick in a great draft. We have to get that right. We either have to draft the right player and have that be a big part of how we go forward and compete or we have to execute a trade using the value of that. And the truth is I don’t know. We don’t know what we’re going to do today. And we don’t have to. What I do think we have to do is be very honest, very direct, make a big assessment. We learned a lot this year. It’s a pretty great opportunity. Of course, I’d rather be in the playoffs and be planning for whoever we’re going to play, but we’re not. So what can we learn from it and figure out how we do we get to where we want to get as quick as we can. But to get alignment, it can’t be foggy right? Totally, yeah. Of course you have to have clarity and alignment on where you want to go as an organization, what matters to Giannis, but I’m saying we don’t have to know that today. I don’t count that as a lack of clarity or a lack of communication. That’s just the set of circumstances. We have to figure that out and we have to in part use what we learned from this year and in part we want to go and where he wants to go. I’ve always cared what he thinks and we gotta figure it out, but I don’t think it’s foggy because it’s not a one path fits all. I think you have to truly evaluate both paths. I don’t know what we’re going to do. During your time as general manager, when expectations haven’t been met, changes have been made, including the firing of coaches. The season featured many losses where it felt like a change might need to be made, so why wasn’t a coaching change made? What I say to that, and it’s very sincere, is we built a team — me as the architect of it. Doc and ownership in alignment — we built a team that was built for pace, shooting, offense where we thought we hope we’re good enough defensively. We’re not sure. There’s some things we’re gonna try stylistically, roster-wise, where we think we can take a jump defensively, but we have a chance to be elite offensively. That’s the group that we built, Doc included. Committed to a style of play. Had an offseason and a training camp where we instituted it. Came out of the gates doing it. And at whatever point in the first quarter of that game, I believe the second or third most important catalyst for doing that (Kevin Porter Jr.) goes out for 20 games. And then we have inconsistent health with Giannis. Now I’m not making excuses. I’m not saying this was a perfectly built team. We might have overcalculated or miscalculated on whatever, but I do know that — and you’re probably like OK, Jon we’ve heard it before, but it’s true — we have two of the top 20 lineups in the NBA in net rating and the best offensive lineup in the NBA with a real sample size and the only other teams that have that are Oklahoma City, San Antonio and Detroit. And so I say all this to say, we just didn’t get to it. Inconsistencies and who these guys play with and what the lineups are, I think we’re probably in the top 10 in the most starting lineups used. I don’t want to put that blame on Doc. That’s a massive undertaking to say we built this roster, we talk so much about changing style of play and our pace and what we do and then bang, big weapon’s gone. And a little bit later, big weapon’s gone. And then you’re in this constant catch-up game. And so, I can’t speak to what the players do or don’t feel, what the feeling is in the locker room. I can’t and I won’t speak to those things. I try really hard to put myself in coaching. I do know it was an incredibly tough year and, in my opinion, Doc did his absolute best to keep the train on the rails as long as possible and I think it was kind of masterful in a lot of ways. Did he hit every single thing right? No. Did I? No. But it’s a really challenging year. He was unbelievable to work with throughout the year with it. He was incredible going through a really tough year. He’s still incredible. It’s crazy. He’s doing everything he can. And that’s truly how I feel. I understand the question. That’s truly how I feel. Ownership too. Most coaches don’t like to coach on one-year deals. Before the Mavericks game, Doc gave us what felt like a farewell statement. Then, in recent games, he has let Darvin Ham take on a larger role. It feels like he’s done or potentially ready to move on. Where does Doc stand? I won’t comment on anything contractual. I never do that. I don’t actually know exactly where the records were, the seedings, but we’ve had very good teams every year except for this year that had a real chance going into the playoffs. And, the last couple years, one before him and two with him and then this year, injuries have gotten us. And, that’s just the tip of other things he and I have had to manage together. He’s been an unbelievable partner in managing those things and I’ve enjoyed working with him. I value his input. And, I don’t know the outcome. We’re gonna figure it all out. I think we’ll figure it all out pretty quickly and what that looks like going forward. (What) I don’t know yet is the answer. I think we will know, but I don’t know yet. So what’s the timeline on a coaching decision? Because whether Doc is back or not, I would imagine the No. 1 question for any coaching candidate will be ‘Will Giannis be on the team?’ One would think that could affect someone’s desire to be on the bench. I don’t agree with that. I don’t. I think, of course, we want to do as much as we can to figure out a path and get as much clarity as we can. We don’t have that clarity now. That decision hasn’t been made. You have three draft picks you could move and have some financial assets. Do you feel empowered to go down that path? So, you truly believe that both paths — trading Antetokounmpo to move in a different direction with those picks or trading the picks to surround Antetokounmpo with better talent — still remain in front of you? I do, yeah. Absolutely. And not only just from my perspective, but I also believe from Giannis’ mindset and his perspective. Whether we need couple’s therapy or whatever, the assets will still be there. I do feel empowered that yeah, those things are both viable things for us to look at and consider. Do Wes and Jimmy and Dee Haslam have to decide on what level they want to try to win at? And do they need to let you know what level that is? I don’t think so. Jimmy, Wes and I have made all these decisions together. They’re stewards of the organization. It’s their organization. As someone who tries to operate in partnership with them and create the best recommendations and options that we can, I think there’s a difference between trying to compete as much as we can as long as we can every year and saying ‘we have to win a championship this year.’ I think our messaging at times said that, so I’m not disagreeing with you, but I have consistently, and Wes and then now Wes and Jimmy, we want to build something that’s sustainable. So, I don’t think the motivation is again, throw everything into one last hurrah, like ‘Last Dance’ or whatever. That’s not going to be their agenda. Their agenda has always been, and will continue to be, here are the resources, here is the ‘you have the opportunity to go do your job, make the decisions, here’s the resources to do it, we want to counsel and work with you, and let’s be as competitive as we possibly can for as long as we possibly can.’ So I don’t need to hear anything different from them. That’s what it is. And, I do believe there’s multiple paths to do that. And I think the most competitive team you could have next year has Giannis on it. I don’t think that’s a secret. Teams have called about Giannis in the past but the answer was always definitively no. So, why now actually consider offers for him? I think your characterization is right. The answer of ‘why now’ is, it’s probably all the way back to when you get to these points in tenure with each other, I think it’s likely, like Wes said, that you either figure out the path forward and you align and you kind of agree to commit to each other on who you want to be and what that looks like and eventually an extension. Or, you try to find the best resolution for everyone. I think that it’s just the why is not that complicated. It’s just different now than it might have been two years ago, or three years ago. And, that’s OK. That doesn’t mean the result is going to be different. You’re about to go through this again. From May through February, the drama surrounding Antetokounmpo’s future hung over the team. He had to address it multiple times. Players and Doc both called it troublesome. Do you look back and wish the team could have messaged its intent differently to avoid the speculation affecting the team all year long? We definitely said we were moving forward with Giannis [to start this season]. I didn’t have to keep repeating it. If I say it, I mean it, I live it, and that’s enough. So, we said we were moving forward with Giannis, we were moving forward with Giannis. So, I don’t think there was a miscommunication or mis-messaging from our side on that. I think there’s no question that the noise had an impact. It’s part of what I was alluding to, like the struggles and how great Doc has been at managing those. But I also don’t think that is a singular result of chatter or rumors or stories that are out there, or facts that are out there, or whatever level you want to say. If he plays 75 games and ‘Scoot’ [Kevin Porter Jr.] plays 75 games then, maybe those things don’t get as much weight. Maybe they do, I don’t know the outcome of that. So it’s hard for me to say I regret how we message. I don’t regret that. I’m not happy with where we’re at or the results or the outcome of a lot of things. No one is. But I don’t regret a messaging component or a clarity component. I think we were very clear: We are trying to win, we’re doing everything we can to win, everything to build a team around Giannis, we believe in the team and we’re gonna go forward. And it didn’t work. Now we got another chance to try and do it again and see if it works. Do you need an assurance from Giannis that he would sign an extension before you begin roster building this offseason? Or do you have the same faith that if you build a team like before, he will extend yet again? I trust and believe what Giannis has said and been written — ‘I want to win and if I can win in Milwaukee that’s where I want to be.’ You know? Everything else is conversation, alignment, discussion and that’s for him and that’s for us. But 100% believe that Giannis Antetokounmpo cares about winning and would love to win in Milwaukee. I believe that. You have some time left on an extension you signed in the spring of 2025. How are you approaching any other potential opportunities this offseason? I’ve never pursued another opportunity. There have been other inquiries for me in the past and I’m grateful, humbled by that. It’s never really been a consideration for me [and my wife]. Our kids are from Milwaukee. Where they go to school, the church that we go to, the sports teams that they play on, their music lessons, going to Fiserv [Forum]. As long as I have an opportunity to do this and have the responsibility to try to do the best I can for the Milwaukee Bucks, that’s all I want to do. And if at some point that’s not the case, then of course, like everyone else I have to consider what else is out there. But as long as I have the opportunity with the Bucks, that’s all I want too. One, because I love the Bucks. Two, I’m incredibly grateful to Wes. At the end of the day, Wes stuck his neck out for me and has continually. Jimmy’s been unbelievable for me to work with. And, my family loves; we love where we live, we love our community, and that’s way more important than anything else. Spot the pattern. Connect the terms Find the hidden link between sports terms Eric Nehm is a senior writer for The Athletic covering the Milwaukee Bucks. Previously, he covered the Bucks at ESPN Milwaukee and wrote the book "100 Things Bucks Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die." Nehm was named NSMA's 2022 Wisconsin Sports Writer of the Year. Follow Eric on Twitter @eric_nehm